Toyota Electric Locker info:
Emails between Karl Bellve and myself
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: <kdb@molmed.ummed.edu>
Subject: Electric Locker: Electric questions
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:02:48 -0800
Karl,
I've been doing a little informal research into Toyota electric
locker
installations. You are the only one that I know of that has done
this yet
that I have found. I've thoroughly read your web page. The way my
browser
displays your wiring diagram makes it hard to decipher. I took
what you
wrote and what I could gather from the picture and drew up what I
think you
did. Please look at this .gif file and let me know if it is
correct. It
seems way too simple to me! Is this really all it took? I read on
the
Toy4x4 list that you had to make some "adjustments"
before you had it
working properly. What did you mean by that, specifically?
Also, if you could please clarify something: Does the "fork
position
switch" (for lack of a better term) close
"unlocked" (ground the G-Y wire)
when the fork is all the way unlocked, or as soon as it is not in
the
"locked" position?
Another thing you might have found out during your reasearch on
the
project: Do you have any idea if the Tacoma locker uses the same
method
(motor, two switches, etc.) for the locking mechanism? I'm
thinking
(dreaming right now) of putting the Taco locker in my T100 as
well, since,
as I understand, it uses the same diff. Would the housing
modification be
similar?
Any other info you could give me, I would appreciate. I'm an
electronics
tech, so please feel free to go into the gory details! I'd like
to create
as complete and accurate a diagram/schematic as possible to post
on the web
so that others can more easily perform this upgrade. Which
reminds me,
were you going to do a write-up for Off-road.com? To some, the
electric
part is the most difficult part of the install. To me, modifying
the
housing would be. I'd like to see if someone can get away without
doing
the welding.
Feel free to keep and/or post the picture, unless I can improve
on it in
some way.
Thanks for your time!
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:38:55 -0500
From: Karl Bellve <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker: Electric questions
Erik Bibelheimer wrote:
>
> Karl,
> I've been doing a little informal research into Toyota
electric locker
> installations. You are the only one that I know of that has
done this yet
> that I have found. I've thoroughly read your web page. The
way my browser
> displays your wiring diagram makes it hard to decipher. I
took what you
> wrote and what I could gather from the picture and drew up
what I think you
> did. Please look at this .gif file and let me know if it is
correct.
It would have helped to include the gif file :-)
> It seems way too simple to me! Is this really all it took? I
read on the
> Toy4x4 list that you had to make some
"adjustments" before you had it
> working properly. What did you mean by that, specifically?
I had to add 2 20 watt-10 0hm resitors in series to the motor.
The
resistors were in parallel with each other, giving 5 ohms but
could
handle 40 watts of power. I had to do this to slow down the
motor. It
was jamming on me.
> Also, if you could please clarify something: Does the
"fork position
> switch" (for lack of a better term) close
"unlocked" (ground the G-Y wire)
> when the fork is all the way unlocked, or as soon as it is
not in the
> "locked" position?
Well, there really isn't a fork position switch. There is a lock
sensor
that detects when the fork is all the way over. This switch then
becomes
grounded when the locker is locked. I use this to activate a
light.
The only switches involve sensing the position of the motor. It
involves
3 wires. A ground coming into the switch. The other two wires are
grounded depending upon the motor. One of those two wires is
always
ground at any given time. So, when the motor travels in one
direction,
it breaks the ground on one of the two wires. It breaks the
ground
travelling the other wire. I use this to cut power to the relays
which
are powering the motor.
> Another thing you might have found out during your reasearch
on the
> project: Do you have any idea if the Tacoma locker uses the
same method
> (motor, two switches, etc.) for the locking mechanism? I'm
thinking
> (dreaming right now) of putting the Taco locker in my T100
as well, since,
> as I understand, it uses the same diff. Would the housing
modification be
> similar?
As long as both use a 8.4" ring gear, I don't see too many
problems.
> Any other info you could give me, I would appreciate. I'm an
electronics
> tech, so please feel free to go into the gory details! I'd
like to create
> as complete and accurate a diagram/schematic as possible to
post on the web
> so that others can more easily perform this upgrade. Which
reminds me,
> were you going to do a write-up for Off-road.com? To some,
the electric
> part is the most difficult part of the install. To me,
modifying the
> housing would be. I'd like to see if someone can get away
without doing
> the welding.
I agree, I suck when it comes to drawing a wiring diagram. If you
could
do better, please do :-)
<snip>
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve ICQ # 13956200
1985 4Runner SR5 TLCA# 7938
Old Man Emu lift, Toyota Electric Locker, TJM-13 Bumper, REP8000
winch,
Stout Equipment rear bumper, RS9000s, Persson Sway-Bar
Disconnects, FJ40
vented rotors and IFS calipers
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: <kdb@molmed.ummed.edu>
Subject: Electric Locker - here's the picture I forgot to attach
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:28:19 -0800
Oops! I forgot to attach the picture! Sorry! :-)
THIS time it shoud be attached as a .gif file.
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:25:17 -0500
From: Karl Bellve <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: quick electric locker question
I am checking out the wiring diagram. It looks very good and I
will let
you know tomorrow if it is accurate :-)
It is actually exactly what I wanted to do myself...
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve ICQ # 13956200
1985 4Runner SR5 TLCA# 7938
Old Man Emu lift, Toyota Electric Locker, TJM-13 Bumper, REP8000
winch,
Stout Equipment rear bumper, RS9000s, Persson Sway-Bar
Disconnects, FJ40
vented rotors and IFS calipers
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:57:15 -0500
From: Karl Bellve <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker - here's the picture I forgot to
attach
Erik Bibelheimer wrote:
>
> Oops! I forgot to attach the picture! Sorry! :-)
> THIS time it shoud be attached as a .gif file.
>
Ok, I edited your wiring diagram and it is attached. I still have
to go
outside and confirm the wire colors. I seem to remember something
was
crossed but I will find out tomorrow.
Hey, once we get this sorted out, do you mind if I use it?
Cheers,
Karl Bellve ICQ # 13956200
1985 4Runner SR5 TLCA# 7938
Old Man Emu lift, Toyota Electric Locker, TJM-13 Bumper, REP8000
winch,
Stout Equipment rear bumper, RS9000s, Persson Sway-Bar
Disconnects, FJ40
vented rotors and IFS calipers
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Karl Bellve" <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
Subject: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions (long)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:50:28 -0800
Hey Karl, the changes look good. I originally had drawn in an
unlocking
light, but I removed it because I didn't see that you had
mentioned one in
your circuit. Oh, and the fuse - DUH, that's pretty important. I
guess I
thought that it goes without saying, but I shouldn't ASSuME :)
Besides
the second yellow line, I think that that's all I noticed
different .
FYI, I originally created the wiring diagram with Visio. I didn't
know if
you used Visio or not, but I can send you the Visio file if you
like, its
not very big. I can also save it as an AutoCAD file. Using Visio,
the
picture prints much clearer and cleaner, but the .gif version is
very
adequate and much more universal.
> Hey, once we get this sorted out, do you mind if I use it?
Nope, not at all. My intention is to simplify the electric locker
installation for everybody so that it can/will become a more
popular
alternative to the ARB. Not that I dislike the ARB, each has its
pros and
cons. I'm also hoping that maybe someone over-seas will take
interest and
find part numbers for locking diffs w/ lower gears! Plus, maybe
someone
might figure out a way to operate the locker manually like the FJ
cable-operated locker, or just a way to operate the locker
externally as a
backup w/o opening anything up (maybe Marlin, with his experience
w/ making
dual t-case and short-throw shifters and linkages). I'd also like
to see
if someone can get away with just drilling/tapping/grinding and
no welding
or machining.
Now a bunch of questions, if you don't mind...
1) About how long are the "locking" and
"unlocking" lights lit? I'm
guessing not much more than a quick blink. Before I saw your web
page, I
thought that electrical portion of the locker would involve
sending timed
pulses to the motor, like the .8 second pulse my alarm sends to
my power
doorlocks. That's why I was surprised when I saw your page and
saw how
simple it was.
2) Speaking of simplicity, I have an idea. What if you got rid of
the
relays and wired a switch so that to lock the locker, you pressed
and held
until the "locked" position light came on and then
released. Then, to
unlock it, pressed the other way until the "unlocked"
position light came
on . Do you think that the motor would jam? I know that you would
be at
risk of burning up the motor if you held the switch down too
long, and the
switch would have to be able to handle the current (the 10 amp
fuse that
you used doesn't seem like very much though). This is kind of how
the
manual portion of my power door locks work. What do you think?
3) What kind of switch did you use? Is it 2-position (ON-ON)? Or
3-position (ON-OFF-ON)? If its 3-position, is it a
"momentary" type where
it automatically returns to center (OFF), or does it stay where
you switch
it after you remove your finger?
4) The "locking fork position switch," I noticed that
you called it a
"limit" switch on your web page. Does the switch only
close at the limit
(all-the-way locked or all-the-way unlocked) of the fork travel?
Meaning
that there is a "dead" space where the switch is open
when the fork is in
an in-between state? If this is the case, with your current
design, if for
some reason the fork was in the in-between position, you wouldn't
be able
to lock or unlock it because you wouldn't have a ground to
activate either
relay. I guess you could get around this by forcing a ground with
another
switch installed just for this situation, or by using my method
mentioned
in #2 above. You could also have the relays always grounded, and
use the
fork switch to just indicate position (but this would be almost
the same as
#2).
5) I think I remember reading on the list that you said that it
was pretty
simple to remove a few bolts and move the locking fork manually,
if
necessary. If you did this, would gear oil come pouring out? Or
is the
motor, etc. isolated from or just higher than the oil?
OK, I'd better give you a break now!
Thanks for your time!
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:01:57 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
<Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Wow, alot of questions...I will try and answer all of them in
another
email...Just wanted tyo tell you I just picked up a front FJ80
high
pinion locker for $325. It will go in the front of my truck. From
studying the locker, I see no reason why it won't work! More to
come
later.
Erik Bibelheimer wrote:
>snip<
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D. ICQ # 13956200
Biomedical Imaging Group TLCA# 7938
University of Massachusetts
Email: Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-6514
Fax: (508) 856-1840
PGP Public key: finger kdb@molmed.umassmed.edu
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
<Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:51:39 -0800
> Wow, alot of questions...I will try and answer all of them
in another
> email...Just wanted tyo tell you I just picked up a front
FJ80 high
> pinion locker for $325. It will go in the front of my truck.
From
> studying the locker, I see no reason why it won't work! More
to come
> later.
OOOOOOOhhh!! What a STEAL!!!!! How did you manage that???
Marlin's page says that the left inner axle needs to have extra
long
splines to accept the FJ80 locker. I'm assuming that you've read
it, but
here it is just in case.
http://www.off-road.com/~marlin/tcase/mini/faqmini.html
It's third line in the last question and is in parentheses. I
don't see
why you couldn't have the splines re-cut longer. From what I've
heard
about Marlin, he would probably be happy to help answer
questions.
Also, I found this page where a REAR FJ80 locker was fitted to a
FRONT
FJ55. It may not apply, but its good reading anyway, and maybe
the people
who were involved could be a good source of information if you
need it.
Definitely keep me posted!!
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:00:07 -0500
From: Karl Bellve <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Erik Bibelheimer wrote:
>
> > Wow, alot of questions...I will try and answer all of
them in another
> > email...Just wanted tyo tell you I just picked up a
front FJ80 high
> > pinion locker for $325. It will go in the front of my
truck. From
> > studying the locker, I see no reason why it won't work!
More to come
> > later.
>
> OOOOOOOhhh!! What a STEAL!!!!! How did you manage that???
>
> Marlin's page says that the left inner axle needs to have
extra long
> splines to accept the FJ80 locker. I'm assuming that you've
read it, but
> here it is just in case.
Well, I hate to say that Marlin was wrong. He even admitted that
he was
wrong. Now that I have the locker in my hands, I certianly know
he is
wrong. He assumed that front FJ80 locker was like the rear FJ80
locker,
which does need longer splines. He has never seen a front FJ80
locker.
The front FJ80 locker is more like the rear 4Runner locker, which
doesn't need longer splines.
>
> http://www.off-road.com/~marlin/tcase/mini/faqmini.html
Can't believe everything you read :-)
>
> It's third line in the last question and is in parentheses.
I don't see
> why you couldn't have the splines re-cut longer. From what
I've heard
> about Marlin, he would probably be happy to help answer
questions.
>
> Also, I found this page where a REAR FJ80 locker was fitted
to a FRONT
> FJ55. It may not apply, but its good reading anyway, and
maybe the people
> who were involved could be a good source of information if
you need it.
>
Yep, I know Lance...
> Definitely keep me posted!!
>
> -- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
> http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
> '86 4Runner
> '97 T100
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve ICQ # 13956200
1985 4Runner SR5 TLCA# 7938
Old Man Emu lift, Toyota Electric Locker, TJM-13 Bumper, REP8000
winch,
Stout Equipment rear bumper, RS9000s, Persson Sway-Bar
Disconnects, FJ40
vented rotors and IFS calipers
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Karl Bellve" <Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:21:24 -0800
> > Marlin's page says that the left inner axle needs to
have extra long
> > splines to accept the FJ80 locker. I'm assuming that
you've read it,
but
> > here it is just in case.
>
> Well, I hate to say that Marlin was wrong. He even admitted
that he was
> wrong. Now that I have the locker in my hands, I certianly
know he is
> wrong. He assumed that front FJ80 locker was like the rear
FJ80 locker,
> which does need longer splines. He has never seen a front
FJ80 locker.
> The front FJ80 locker is more like the rear 4Runner locker,
which
> doesn't need longer splines.
I guess it pays to do your own research :-) Too bad Marlin
doesn't update
his pages very often.
> > Also, I found this page where a REAR FJ80 locker was
fitted to a FRONT
> > FJ55. It may not apply, but its good reading anyway,
and maybe the
people
> > who were involved could be a good source of information
if you need it.
> >
>
> Yep, I know Lance...
Ok, I see that you're way ahead of me. Just trying to offer a
little help.
Have fun with your new locker(s) and keep me posted.
Happy Wheeling!
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:17:44 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
<Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Erik Bibelheimer wrote:
>
> Hey Karl, the changes look good. I originally had drawn in
an unlocking
> light, but I removed it because I didn't see that you had
mentioned one in
> your circuit. Oh, and the fuse - DUH, that's pretty
important. I guess I
> thought that it goes without saying, but I shouldn't ASSuME
:) Besides
> the second yellow line, I think that that's all I noticed
different .
I think I moved alot of the stuff to the right, to show it
connected by
another homemade harness. No biggie.
> FYI, I originally created the wiring diagram with Visio. I
didn't know if
> you used Visio or not, but I can send you the Visio file if
you like, its
> not very big. I can also save it as an AutoCAD file. Using
Visio, the
> picture prints much clearer and cleaner, but the .gif
version is very
> adequate and much more universal.
I am not sure what Visto is. I don't have autocad either. You
could
insert my changes into what you have...then we can have a high
resolution version.
<cut>
>
> Now a bunch of questions, if you don't mind...
> 1) About how long are the "locking" and
"unlocking" lights lit? I'm
The lights stay lit as long as the electric motor gets power. The
electric motor gets power as long as the circuit is alive. It can
take a
few seconds, especially with my 40watt/5ohm resistor inline with
the
motor.
> guessing not much more than a quick blink. Before I saw your
web page, I
> thought that electrical portion of the locker would involve
sending timed
> pulses to the motor, like the .8 second pulse my alarm sends
to my power
> doorlocks. That's why I was surprised when I saw your page
and saw how
> simple it was.
I think a 0.8 second pulse maybe the way the factory does it. I
have no
clue on how to do that on a custom box. Perhaps use Flasher
relays.
> 2) Speaking of simplicity, I have an idea. What if you got
rid of the
> relays and wired a switch so that to lock the locker, you
pressed and held
> until the "locked" position light came on and then
released. Then, to
> unlock it, pressed the other way until the
"unlocked" position light came
> on . Do you think that the motor would jam? I know that you
would be at
> risk of burning up the motor if you held the switch down too
long, and the
> switch would have to be able to handle the current (the 10
amp fuse that
> you used doesn't seem like very much though). This is kind
of how the
> manual portion of my power door locks work. What do you
think?
The motor will jam. It happened to me several times, even with
the
relays cutting power automatically. The motor is going at a high
speed
and jams due to momentum. The 0.8 second pulse might cure this.
> 3) What kind of switch did you use? Is it 2-position
(ON-ON)? Or
> 3-position (ON-OFF-ON)? If its 3-position, is it a
"momentary" type where
> it automatically returns to center (OFF), or does it stay
where you switch
> it after you remove your finger?
Right now I am using a 3 position momentary switch which I don't
like. I
rather have a 3-position switch that stays sets. I have seen a 2
position switch, (ON-OFF) where off was just powering the
unlocking
circuit, which looses power then the diff is unlocked.
> 4) The "locking fork position switch," I noticed
that you called it a
> "limit" switch on your web page. Does the switch
only close at the limit
> (all-the-way locked or all-the-way unlocked) of the fork
travel? Meaning
> that there is a "dead" space where the switch is
open when the fork is in
> an in-between state? If this is the case, with your current
design, if for
> some reason the fork was in the in-between position, you
wouldn't be able
> to lock or unlock it because you wouldn't have a ground to
activate either
> relay. I guess you could get around this by forcing a ground
with another
> switch installed just for this situation, or by using my
method mentioned
> in #2 above. You could also have the relays always grounded,
and use the
> fork switch to just indicate position (but this would be
almost the same as
> #2).
One of the two grounds for the relays are always grounded. You
only
loose ground when you truly go from one state to another. Only
when the
diff is locked will the locking relay loose ground. Only when the
diff
is unlocked will the unlocking relay loose ground. Both relays
will be
recieving ground in the in-between position.
> 5) I think I remember reading on the list that you said that
it was pretty
> simple to remove a few bolts and move the locking fork
manually, if
> necessary. If you did this, would gear oil come pouring out?
Or is the
> motor, etc. isolated from or just higher than the oil?
No oil will come out. It is higher than the fill plug. When I
pulled the
high pinion diff this morning, I have to pull the motor before I
pulled
the diff. The diff can only be pulled from the housing when it is
locked.
>
> OK, I'd better give you a break now!
>
> Thanks for your time!
>
> -- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
> http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
> '86 4Runner
> '97 T100
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D. ICQ # 13956200
Biomedical Imaging Group TLCA# 7938
University of Massachusetts
Email: Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-6514
Fax: (508) 856-1840
PGP Public key: finger kdb@molmed.umassmed.edu
From: "Erik Bibelheimer"
<thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
<Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:12:24 -0800
> I am not sure what Visto is. I don't have autocad either.
You could
> insert my changes into what you have...then we can have a
high
> resolution version.
Will do.
> > guessing not much more than a quick blink. Before I saw
your web page,
I
> > thought that electrical portion of the locker would
involve sending
timed
> > pulses to the motor, like the .8 second pulse my alarm
sends to my
power
> > doorlocks. That's why I was surprised when I saw your
page and saw how
> > simple it was.
>
> I think a 0.8 second pulse maybe the way the factory does
it. I have no
> clue on how to do that on a custom box. Perhaps use Flasher
relays.
I was thinking of using a 555 timer as a one-shot (if that makes
any sense
to you). That gets pretty complicated pretty quick. That's why I
liked
your method.
> One of the two grounds for the relays are always grounded.
You only
> loose ground when you truly go from one state to another.
Only when the
> diff is locked will the locking relay loose ground. Only
when the diff
> is unlocked will the unlocking relay loose ground.
> **** Both relays will be
> recieving ground in the in-between position.****
Aaahh. I see. This makes good sense. Now I understand. :-)
Forget my ideas about switching in a ground and getting rid of
relays.
> The diff can only be pulled from the housing when it is
> locked.
Interesting. Didn't know that.
-- Erik Bibelheimer, Sacramento, CA
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer
'86 4Runner
'97 T100
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:04:36 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
<Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu>
To: Erik Bibelheimer <thebeebs@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Locker wiring diag and more questions
(long)
Erik,
Last night I finally got underneath my truck to confirm the
polarity of
all the wiring. Everything checks out as exactly in the wiring
diagram.
Time to publish!
--
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D. ICQ # 13956200
Biomedical Imaging Group TLCA# 7938
University of Massachusetts
Email: Karl.Bellve@umassmed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-6514
Fax: (508) 856-1840
PGP Public key: finger kdb@molmed.umassmed.edu